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Entry tags:	potterverse, rant

V.E.N.O.M
Skip right on past this entry if you're not a Harry/Voldemort shipper.  I didn't think this really belonged in the S.S. Sssssss thread (current incarnation here), so I'm doing it this way instead.

The list was taken from the Can't Stand Harry/Voldemort! thread at Fiction Alley (as is, which means spelling mistakes are included).

Updated: 21 October 2008, to include three new "reasons", and to make it a bit easier to read.

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Reasons not to ship H/V:

1. Because Voldie killed Harry's parents. Isn't this enough?

No, not really.  People die in wars, just in case you hadn't heard.  And while I'd agree that these particular circumstances would be one hell of a mountain to climb over, I don't think it's impossible.  And since this is fanfiction, people have this odd thing about altering stuff.  You know, like how all fanfiction is AU, simply because none of us are JKR, therefore nothing we can ever do is canon, even if you are shipping a canon ship.

With that in mind, Harry could have reacted differently to his upbringing.  Harry could have been pissed off at his parents for getting involved in the first place, and getting themselves killed, with him landing at the Dursley home.  He might have come out of his upbringing also thinking he's superior to muggles, perhaps holding an intense hatred of them.  After all, we never see any canon evidence that any muggles stood up for him, or encouraged him in school.  Neighbors did nothing about the way he was treated, his teachers did nothing, etcetera, and so on and so forth.

The fact remains that no evidence exists either way, so it's up to us to decide what happened in our own little fantasy worlds.  For all we know the neighbors really do believe that Harry attends St Brutus's School for Criminally Insane Boys, and that he's a bad seed, and that he's behind all the hooliganism in the neighborhood (and not people like Dudley).

Harry may well have, in an alternate universe, grown up to think Voldemort wasn't too far off the mark.

2. Because Harry's friends wouldn't approve.

And there are plenty of us who disdain or even loathe Harry's friends, so why would we care what they think?  Ron is a jealous, lazy twat who sees nothing wrong (supported in canon) with screwing with the heads of muggles.  Hermione has trouble with empathy and that whole "feelings" thing, and fell in love with a twit (in canon) who runs her down and treats her badly, and does stuff behind her back he knows she won't approve of.  Great recipe there.  Ron/Hermione is an example of a seriously fucked up canon relationship.

Also, they can hardly get whiffy over some of the things Voldemort does when they have no problem with using Unforgivables themselves.  They break the laws as it suits them.  Hm, I wonder who else does that?  Oh, about half or more of the entire cast?

Next, I'm not a huge fan of allowing my friends to decide my love interest for me.  Many people aren't.  And sometimes, that attitude results in a very bad situation.  Sometimes it doesn't.  But guess what?  We have a life to live, to make mistakes during.  It's a bit difficult to do that when a committee is making your decisions for you.

3. Because Voldie's friends wouldn't, either.

Somehow, I hardly think Voldemort is holding an informal survey amongst his "friends" (read: Death Eater minions) on how they view who he's lusting over.

4. Because "Avada Kedavra" doesn't mean "I like you"

And throwing a butcher's knife at my brother's head when I was younger didn't mean "I want to kill you".  Well, maybe I did.  I was angry at the time.  But again, this is a war, and people on opposing sides might occasionally try to do each other in.

In fact, it's not been unknown that opposing sides have reached an agreement to cease hostilities by marrying off one from each side to the other.  Maybe that's not modern, but who ever said the wizarding world was completely up to speed?

5. Because poor Bellatrix would have an heart attack.

And we care, why?

6. Because neither Harry nor Voldie would look good in a white wedding dress (see some horrible fanart...).

And this is just ridiculous.

7. Because Hedwig and Nagini would have troubles living together.

Again, why? (ETA: Heck, go read this. It addresses that point. *smirk*)

8. Because Voldie's big snake in the Chamber of Secrets was a real snake-no smutty subtext intended.

You're secretly a pervert, aren't you?  It's okay to admit it, really.

9. Because both Voldie and Harry tried to kill their "true love"

Well, dear, I don't believe in "true love" in this context.  I don't believe in the concept of soul mates (though it can be amusing to write about).  I don't believe in having a One True Love™.

10. Because Voldemort was happy when he thought Harry was dead.

Yeah, go figure.  Nearly at the conclusion of canon, when he was the verge of "victory", and one of his more famous opponents was face down in the mud.  Can't imagine why.

Again, we're talking about fanfiction, not canon, that thing which by definition is not canon.

11. Because Harry wants to live his life without Voldemort in it.

Harry also wants to live his life without Dumbledore keeping secrets from him, without Ron being a jealous twat, without Hermione being so damn nosy and insensitive, with Sirius still in it....  The list can go on forever, you know.

More to the point, Harry might want to live his life without ever having been "The Boy Who Lived" or "The Chosen One".  There are a lot of things we don't want, but we deal with anyway.  Sometimes we stew about it, and sometimes we get over it and continue living.  People change.  And in the land of !canon... well, cause and effect play a part. 

12. Because there is nothing sexy about a snakelike man and a teenage boy together.

Oh, so it would be okay if Voldemort was a smokin' hot dude.  Sure.

13. Because Lily and James would be horrified.

And they got themselves killed in a war, leaving their only child to suffer a life of abuse, of  being used, and being molded, blah blah blah.  Maybe when they got up to heaven and looked back down, and saw everything, they would be horrified, but on Harry's behalf.  And maybe they would be ashamed of their own actions, for being so ill prepared.  That canon scene was just awful.  I was ashamed of them.

Even so, they're dead.  Harry's "love" for his parents is based on damn near no actual information.  All I know is that James was a bigoted asshole.  But yet again, in the land of AU, details change.  Just because someone writes a story with a canon pairing doesn't make it canon.  It's still someone's idea of a good story.  So if I think Lily could look down and say, "Well, the Dark Wanker does actually love our son, and not in that creepy way Severus 'loved' me....."

14. Because so would Sirius.

And Sirius, for all that we seem to love him, was just as much of an asshole as James.  True, I don't think he'd approve, but I simply can't be bothered by that.  If I tried to stay canon compliant (which'll never happen), I wouldn't be writing in the first place.  There would be no Harry/Severus or Harry/Blaise or Harry/Voldemort or Harry/Anyone, because I refuse to support that disgusting, soul-sucking rendition of "True Love" called Harry/Ginny.

Therefore, details must change.  And that opens the door for other things.

Canon shows us a jerk in Sirius.  And he's probably mentally unstable, too.  Poor Harry, with no real father figure, latching onto Sirius....  But that doesn't make Sirius a saint, nor does it make his opinion gospel.

15. Because Voldemort is the reason that Harry lived with the Dursley's for sixteen years.

Uh, no, Dumbledore is the reason.  Thanks.

16. Because what's wrong with Harry being in a relationship with someone his own age?

And this is relevant, how?

17. Because it is possible for fanfiction authors to turn Harry dark without making him Voldemort's lover as well.

Oh  my gosh, you might be right!  Again, why is this particularly relevant?

18. Because Ron would never agree to be Harry's best man for the wedding.

If Harry is off shagging Voldemort, what are the odds that Ron would be in the picture anyway?

19. Because the thought of them having children together is just sick.

Why?  Because two men having or adopting a child is "sick"?

20. Because Voldemort would never support Harry's career choice.

And you know this, why?  Oh, right, you're talking about canon again, what with that whole thing about Harry (and Ron) "revolutionizing" the auror program.  Hang on a minute, I need to go laugh hysterically.

Okay, I'm back.  If Voldemort was in charge of the wizarding world, why would he have a problem with Harry being part of his police force?

21. Because Harry would never want to kill people like his mother and Hermione just because of their blood.

You must have missed all the fics where Harry doesn't do that, and yet somehow still manages to bed Voldemort on a regular basis.  You must also have missed all the non-Harry/Voldemort fics where Harry calls muggleborns "mudbloods" and taunts them, completely forgetting that minor detail of Lily being muggleborn.

22. Because Harry would have to stop being friends with Ron and Hermione.

Maybe he already has?  Or never was?  Hello?  I keep waving the AU flag, but....

23. Because Voldemort would lose a lot of respect from his followers if he were to fall in love with Harry.

Why?  Half the time (or more, who knows) Harry is his equal and partner.  Actually, I would think many might count it coup that Harry is on their side.  Now, if it's about the "fall in love" thing, who says any of them need to know?  Does the CEO of the company you work for seek your approval before falling in love?

Does a dictator ask his "friends" for approval?  Or is he fishing for an opinion of the political viability of the match?  Either way, it's likely he'll do whatever he wants.

24. Because Harry does not want to take over the Wizarding world.

Uh huh.  No, he's too lazy to do that, generally speaking.  Harry likes to let other people do his work for him, and just coast along.  Even so, no one said shagging Voldemort would put him in line for President For Life.  Do you become intimately involved with your spouse's work, such that it becomes your life?

25. Because Voldemort is the reason that Harry can see threstrals (spelling?) so young.

Actually, that was Peter, thanks.  And there is this thing called the Harry Potter Lexicon.  You should visit.

26. Because Harry and Voldemort both have kickass women in love with them that would kick their sorry arses if they hooked up!

I wasn't aware that any female was in love with Voldemort, according to canon.  I must have missed that memo.  Also, Ginny is a twat with multiple personality disorder, with a singular claim to fame of being able to cast the Bat Bogey Hex.  Whoo.  Oh, and she's a psycho hosebeast fangirl stalker.  Prize material, folks!  Yes, you too can have your own Stepford wife.

On a side note, I also wasn't aware that someone being in love with another meant the other had to go along with it.  So, by this reasoning, Lily should have married Severus, her devoted and creepy stalker.

27. It would forever sully the name of Potter (for Harry) and Slytherin (for Volders).

I don't see why.  And I've never put much stock in this whole name thing, either.  It never occurred to me to concern myself with whether my actions reflected badly on my family name, but rather whether I was being untrue to myself and my code of conduct.

Besides, being a half blood is already a dark stain on the Slytherin name for Voldemort, so I suppose he should just off himself and get it over with.

28. Three words: Incapable of love.

In canon.  But we're not talking about canon, are we.  If JKR wants to make the guy a sociopath, whatever.  I'm not JKR last time I checked.

29. Because there's crazy, there's Harmony, and then there's Harry/Voldemort. [NO OFFENSE TO ANY H/HR SHIPPERS. However, you will agree that some of your ranks are nutso. We on the Orange Crush have some maniacs too, but they didn't come out as often back when stereotypes were being made.]

I don't see the relevance.

30. They make other crazy pairings look likely. Tom/Ginny? Well, it's sort of canon. Harry/Draco? They're in the same age group. And when T/G and H/D start looking good in comparison, you know you've got a problem.

Oh, is it?  Why?  Because she poured her heart out to diary!Tom?  Well, if that's a basis for a ship being less crazy....  Subtext, people!  And personally, I don't see how either of those pairings look good in comparison.

31: Because Harry has got headaches every time he's near his "love"

Yeah, all that high emotion thing.  Must mean Harry's a masochist.  But we already knew that when he completely lost his sense of self and entered HBP.  Funny though, how so many people find ways to alleviate that issue.

32: Because Harry wouldn't like to share his dinner with evil werewolves...

So you think Voldemort has Fenrir at his dinner table?

33:...or his house with Deatheaters

Why would Death Eaters be living in his house?  Is this a commune?

Keep in mind, I'm making a distinction between a house owned and lived in by Harry and Voldemort, and Voldemort turning Lucius Malfoy's manor into DELand.

34: Because Harry wouldn't enjoy his Sunday lunch with Bellatrix at the same table

You're assuming she'd be there in the first place.  I can see it now.... Voldemort, the kindly master on Sundays, having all his minions over for a meal, then back to Crucio afterward.  Yup.

35: Because none of Voldie's friends would be a good babysitter (especially not Greyback)

First, I wasn't aware that canon!Voldemort had friends.  I believe we should be calling them minions.  Second, why on earth would he trust any of them with the issue of his loins in a canon setting?  Actually, why on earth would canon!Voldemort have a kid?  He's going to live forever, right?  Why would he need any sprogs?  Could he even raise one such that it didn't rebel and set up a new opposition?  "Yes, you will eat your damn peas!  Crucio!"

36: Because Harry's Patronus couldn't survive

So?  I'm sure that Tonks was just heartbroken when hers changed after she "fell in love".  If they change due to love.... Yes, yes, such a travesty if Prongs no longer rode on.

37: Because Kreacher would start a new war against his master

Why?  What better recommendation can a person have than the Dark Lord's favor?  Is Kreacher also going to wage war on Voldemort for being queer?

38: Because even Sirius'mother would be shocked

Like anyone gives a shit what she thinks?

39: Because Ron and Hermione wouldn't like to invite Voldie to their own wedding

Again, what are the odds the trio would still be friends? Thus, why would it matter?

40. Because Voldemort hasn' got some sort of inner beauty...or outer beauty, to be honest

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  And over here in AULand....  Some people do actually appreciate sadists.  And some people do actually appreciate someone's personality, intelligence, etc., without having too much care for the outside package.  We're not all hopelessly shallow, so we can work with this material, and nudge it.  And some of us can even handle snake-faced Voldemort being sexy.

41. Because childhood traumi often affect your life...and your supposed lover killing your parents is decidedly a big trauma

An excellent argument for canon being whacked, actually.

42. Because you know it won't work when Azkaban seems a fitting place for all your lover's friends

Again, since when are they friends?

Also, canon depictions of Harry, Hermione, Ron, McGonagall, et. al., all belong in Azkaban, so I suppose this is a moot argument.

43. Because you know it won't work when you are a bit obsessed with the blood of your lover's friends

We all have our quirks.  However, as written, this sounds like one of them is a vampire.  I'm sure that was unintentional.  We've already gone over this "friends" thing from both sides, though.

44. ...but this is not a big problem, since you don't mind killing them all. Who needs friends, anyway?

This looks like a continuation of #43, so I tend to agree with kvh on this one. But really, if they are your friends, and they're still your friends, then I don't see why you'd be killing them. Nor Voldybear. If Harry's friends were accepting, then it's not outside reason that Voldemort would leave them alone. It's not like it's healthy for a couple to be joined at the hip, for pixie's sake.

And it's a bit counterproductive. I mean, someone has to do stuff like run departments in the new government and go on Cheezy Poof runs.

45. Because Voldemort tends to fascinate people only when he needs them.

No, Voldemort is a charming little devil when he wants to be, and if it's counterproductive to terrify people into compliance. Maybe he's fascinating because of his brilliance, his breadth of knowledge, and the way he holds himself. Maybe because he's willing to look beyond black and white, which rightly speaking, everyone should give a go.

For Harry, yes, in part because they have many similarities. And no, I don't buy that ridiculous bit about Harry 'The Horcrux Made Me Do It' Potter.

Frankly, with this sort of idea, one has to wonder about all those Death Eaters and unmarked supporters. Especially the unmarked supporters. Does anyone really think Voldemort is having Sunday tea and playing the proper host with these guys?

Oh, wait, I know. Voldemort is like a snake charmer isn't he? Except he's the snakey one. I wonder, does he hypnotize people with Parseltongue? Oooo.

But seriously, I think there are plenty of people who actually agree with what Voldemort's been doing or wants to do. They can't all be spineless wimps. I count three Death Eaters who turned, and one of them is hardly worth counting.

46. Because Voldemort spent years and energies trying to kill Harry, so his love for the boy would be quite...well, comic.

Let's do the math, shall we? 1981 makes one. 1991 is only a maybe because I sincerely doubt that whole broomstick thing would have worked. 1992, iffy since it was Quirrell, so we'll give that half a point. 1993 was a Horcrux, so we'll give that half a point. 1995 was a definite yes, so we're up to three. And then canon inexplicably stopped.

1996 is a no, if I recall correctly (can't hardly tally in Dumbles, after all, and Inferi don't count). 1997-98! Er, one success and one failure. Rather like HBP, I can barely remember the book contents. I blocked the trauma, you see. (And it's not out of the question that I'm forgetting other attempts.)

Total: 5

So in the seventeen years of Harry's life, we have five attempts, which gives us a result of once every 3.5 years. (I'm not counting the first year, but I am counting up to just shy of his eighteenth birthday.)

I suppose I could toss in another point for that whole "stuck in Malfoy Manor" thing, but I honestly can't remember what happened then, or if Voldybear got anywhere near him, or if it was just Death Eaters.

That, my friends, is not massive amounts of energy or even planning.

Now, back to the comic stuff. *glances at kvh's response* I don't think I need to say anything else, actually, unless it was to point back at part of my response to #4.